Eerie Descent 5:23 Wed Dec 29
Soucek
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Strong rumours that he's not happy with his deeper role in the team, and could maybe try to get a move away.
Difficult one this. You can't hold a player like Rice back, however there's no doubt that Soucek is more of a goal threat. And if he was playing his favoured role, we'd have more chance of keeping Soucek long term.
Wonder what his value would be?
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
fraser
5:47 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Definitely hard to gauge where we are after Watford
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rumford
5:33 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Fair enough. but we did look more productive going forward against Watford but yeah Watford are a poor side. Will be interesting against Palace who have only lost once at home so far this season.
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fraser
5:21 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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rumford - I'm not talking about stifling his development, I'm talking about stifling his current use.
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rumford
5:18 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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I agree with Nagel given the vunerability of our centre backs at the moment. Yes, long term you wouldn't want to stifle Rice's development.
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fraser
5:04 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Nagel - but I don't agree with you that the team would be better off with what is easily our best player stifled.
I don't think it's just for his personal benefit.
I think Southgate made that mistake with Rice and he wasn't as good for England as us.
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Russ of the BML
4:33 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Nagel 2:19 Fri Dec 31
They are both great box to box midfielders but Rice can do it with the ball. That's a completely different thing.
Soucek gets on the end of set plays, picks up scraps around the edge of the box, wins the second ball, supports strikers etc etc.
Rice does that too. But, as I said, also carries the ball upfield and goes past players. That's why Rice is regarded as one of the worlds best midfielders and Soucek, as good as he is, isn't.
I just think if Soucek is put out by not getting forward as much as he likes. But surely between Moyes, Soucek and Rice they can devise system which allows flexibility.
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Nagel
2:19 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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The issue is that Rice is a great holding midfielder and also a great box to box midfielder, while Soucek is only a great box to box midfielder. Playing two B2B midfielders without a dedicated holding player weakens the team defensively, especially so at a time when most of our best defenders are out.
I'm more concerned with the team than with Rice as an individual, and if that stifles his progression a little bit then I ain't that fussed as he will almost certainly be gone soon anyway.
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fraser
2:12 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Nagel - I do get your point, but stats aside I can see what Rice brings to the team
Most pundits are gushing about the way he plays now, he's grown into a brilliant box to box midfielder and I think it would be madness to completely stifle that.
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Nagel
1:46 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Yes it was fraser (although he got 5 assists, not 10), but his ball progression stats were pretty high the following season too. In any case, it's clear that you don't get the point.
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SUM A DING WONG
1:41 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Fair do's, Fraser.
It just come across to me, that you didn't want Rice to drop deep at all.
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fraser
1:25 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Nagel - was that his first season when he scored 10 goals and had 10 assists?
If so we could definitely do with a player like that.
Yes Sum they should definitely take it in turns going forward, my point was no way should Rice be sitting back the whole time, he's one of the best box to box midfielders around.
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legrandefromage
1:23 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Ridiculous. What next? Fabianski is hopeless on the wing!
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Russ of the BML
1:18 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Manuel 11:32 Fri Dec 31
Totally agree.
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SUM A DING WONG
1:17 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of having both Soucek and Rice swapping roles, depending on the circumstances of the game.
Jesus. Wept.
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Nagel
1:13 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Felipe Anderson progressed the ball 450 times in the Premier League in 2018/19, the most of any midfielder except Eden Hazard. So no way should we have sold him when he drove us up the pitch more often than almost any other midfielder in the league.
Let's try and sign him back. Wait, what's that, you say stats aren't the be all and all of how good a player is in his role or position and doesn't address whether that effects the whole team positively or negatively? Oh, okay.
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Full Claret Jacket
1:09 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Its great that Rice drives up the pitch more than any other midfielder but is that to counter what others should be doing or is it to the detriment of the teams shape? When I've seen him do it, it's not always effective. You have to have others on your wavelength to make runs and often others are too static or run offside waiting for the pass.
Players need to play their positions and we need better players around Rice to complement him.
Lingard drove up the pitch when he was with us and was effective perhaps as his drives were more counter attack or he had more instinct in attacking areas to know where to run, how to commit players and when to play a pass.
Personally I think we don't want to end up with a team that is focused on what one individual wants who may or may not stay with us/ be fit etc. We need a team where everyone knows and does their role well. I think we are a few players short of that or at least we may have some of the players but they aren't up to that level of understanding yet.
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SUM A DING WONG
12:41 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Fraser,
There's no point him trying to 'drive with the ball' if the opposition is just sitting back and he has no space to run into and just ends up going nowhere.
There's a time and place.
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fraser
12:29 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Just read this on BBC page from Garth Crooks who has Antonio and Rice in his team of the year.
Rice progressed the ball 2,148 metres in the Premier League in 2021, the most of any midfielder
So no way should we make him sit back more when he drives us up the pitch more than any other midfielder in the league
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SUM A DING WONG
11:38 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Apologies for saying two blocks of 4.
I should stick to just looking at Alex Scott and not listening to her.
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SUM A DING WONG
11:36 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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We're not Man City or Liverpool, so we can't play our way through 2 blocks of 4, like they can.
Stay solid, get back to scoring from set pieces. If Soucek is starting further forward, law of averages says he'll have more chances to score (both set pieces and open play).
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Manuel
11:32 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Sven Roeder 11:06 Fri Dec 31
''The driving forward of Rice creates space and opens up defences. Thats not Soucek's style''
Bit generous to say it's not his style, the reality is he isn't good enough to do that, he would probably fall over.
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